(Part 2 of 2) Our Conversation with Theodora Lee, Founder of Theopolis Vineyards

This is Part 2 of our interview with Theodora Lee, Founder of Theopolis Vineyards. Part 1 is available here.

Melier
The economics of this industry are so challenging. It’s amazing the number of questions that we get from folks who are surprised when we talk about how hard it is to make money in wine. Why is wine such a difficult business to make money?

Theodora
Well, unless you inherited the land, you have a mortgage. Then you got property tax. Then you have to farm the land. In the early years, I was out there pruning with the crew, because when you're out there, that helps eliminate the cost of paying someone else. Now that I'm not able to do as much of that hands-on stuff as I used to, I have a full vineyard management team.

We are a small lot vineyard, so we hand pick and hand craft our wines. That's not cheap. We use French oak barrels, and the Euro is still more valuable than the dollar. And I can tell you those French coopers, they won't take a credit card. You’ve got to wire them that money. So then you got to look at labor, and you got to look at the supplies, the labels, the caps, the corks. It’s a money-intensive field.

Unless you were born into a wine family, or you are willing to go into debt to do this, then you don't make any money. I am fortunate that I do have multiple streams of income, and I'm able to use that to put back in the vineyard. And 2021 was a great year. People were still at home from COVID. They figured if they were still at home after a year and a half, they better drink. Our online sales went through the roof. For literally the first time since I've been in business, we made a minor profit. But in 2022, we saw profits plummet because people were back out. It’s not just us though, many brands lost revenue in 2022.

So I'm sad that the industry is not selling as much, but I'm glad I'm not the only one that actually made less revenue in 2022. We have primarily been direct to consumer, 99.9% direct to consumer because the three-tier system is not good for the little guy like us. Because after you spend the money to grow the grapes or source the grapes and make the wine, then you have to market it and sell it.

And then there's shipping. With all the transportation costs, by the time it gets to the buyer through the three-tier system, I'm making 50% less than if I go direct to the consumer. So that's what we've done.

So when we go direct to consumer we can produce more, but more production means more costs. When we started bottling with the 2012 vintage, we only bottled 300 cases. Last year, we bottled 2,500 cases. So our production has gone up but net revenue went down.

Melier
What's one or two things that you think have to happen for wine to become more appealing to more people, for people to just buy more wine.

Theodora
I think you have to grow an appreciation for wine. And it's important to me to educate folks on wine because I came from a family that didn’t drink fine wine. Remember, my father thought wine was just Muscadine, whereas today I bottle premium handcrafted wines. And so you need to have an appreciation for what goes into making that wine, the quality of the wine. Fortunately for us, critics and consumers seem to like our product. We keep getting 90 plus points, double golds, best in class, and our customers keep coming back. Our wine club has grown. I like when our product speaks for itself.

But we need to educate people about not just the product, but to show how wine brings people together. To me, wine to is a symbol of peace and togetherness, because when you get a group of people together with a great menu of food and wine, none of the stuff that divides us really matters. The fellowship matters more. That's what brings people together.

My goal in the business is to continue to make pleasure in the bottle. Back in high school, I was a bartender and I made Wonder Punch, which was Everclear, 151, Vodka, and Kool-Aid. You only needed two for the night and you were set. So I guess you could say I've always provided pleasure in a bottle, but now it's just wine. Which tastes a lot better. *laughs* But if you had my Wonder Punch today, honey, you'd be asking for some right now.

Melier
I'm sure I would. And then my wife would be pissed because the night would go downhill quickly.

Theodora
You’d be shit-faced, for lack of a better word.

Melier
*Laughs* Yes I would. I mean, when I was in college, I was more of a beer drinker and frankly had two friends who were very into wine that I would make fun of. Then I went on a tasting trip in Santa Barbara wine country and enjoyed it way more than I thought I would.

I’m not sure I would’ve gotten into wine without that experience, but not everyone starts with that. And so when it comes to getting people excited about wine I wonder, is education enough? Is there a way you can get people over the emotional hump that wine is this thing that has to be drunk in a certain way or in a certain setting or by a certain type of person?

Theodora
It is part education, but it’s also opportunity and connection. So when I do wine dinners, when I do wine tastings, I talk about wine like a real person.

Look, I love sommeliers, I love wine educators because they're telling people how to taste, what they're tasting, and how to swirl. But I don't talk about wine like that. I talk about Big Daddy, Big Daddy Junior, I talk about things that are relatable. So what you need to do to make wine more accessible is talk to them about what people love. Do you like sitting on the back of the porch on a warm day, sipping something that's a porch pounder, that feels good, that tastes good, and makes you feel good? That's what I'm talking about. Well, I've got a wine for you. Our 2020 Pinot Noir has won multiple gold medals, but we call it strawberry jam. Because when you're sipping it, you think you're drinking strawberry jam in a bottle.

Melier
What motivates you in life?

Theodora
What motivates me is the sense of satisfaction I get by making a difference. I feel that I can be an inspiration to many, and I’ve tried to lift others as I have tried to climb. I like to be mentor. I look at Ashanti and how she's developing, and her mother talks about how much self-esteem and confidence she has. I look at some of my law firm mentees and their successes. I look at my relatives who decided to go back to college because they saw me do it. That’s all motivation for me to do more.

But what I live for in life is travel. I'm not a person that needs a lot of material things, but I enjoy seeing the world. I enjoy art. I enjoy food. I enjoy meeting new people. I’ve fortunately been able to combine my love of travel with wine. I don't know if you know this, but I will be the first African-American woman to host a wine river cruise in France in November of [2023].

Melier
I didn't know that. That’s awesome.

Theodora
Yes. Check out our website for more information. It’s going down the Rhone and the Seine River. We're going to leave the South of France and I'll be doing wine dinners and wine talks and tastings on board. And there are opportunities to bike between destinations.

It’s a small boat, only 70 cabins, and I think between my wine club and my friends we've sold most of our tickets. They've already invited me to come back next year in 2024, and I picked the Danube River. I want to do more of that type of travel once I retire, hopefully in the next five years, but all of it depends on my mother's health and her longevity because I need multiple sources of income to keep her in her home with six caregivers. So I'll be working multiple careers until I don't have to anymore.

But until then, I'm going to make the best of the situation, drink great wine, eat great food, spend time with people I love. I turned 60 last year and celebrated with seventy friends, from kindergarten all the way through my wine family that I've met over the last five years, and we had a ball. And I think I set a trend because now all of my friends that are turning 60 now are having destination birthday parties. I'm having a ball with that. You only live once you’ve got to make the best of it. That’s my motto.

Melier
Sounds like you’re quite popular.

Theopatra
Well, I'm definitely a people person. That's why I'm a labor and employment lawyer. Not because I make money, but because we’re dealing with people-centric cases like wrongful termination and employment discrimination. Unless it's a wages or class action or non-compete case, where some key worker is leaving and taking the trade secret with them, our clients don't want to pay us the big dollars. But I love it because it's all about sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Right?

Melier
I mean, at the end of the day we’re legal drug dealers, aren't we?

Theopatra
You know what? As a lawyer, I've had to do drug stings where employees are selling drugs out of warehouses in trucks. I've had to work with the Alameda County Sheriff's Department. I write drug testing policy. When I say sex, drugs, and rock and roll, it's amazing the kind of things I learned that people do at work. Golden showers, I had never heard of that until I got a case involving it. People are strange and they bring all of those proclivities to work. 

Melier
Aside from working, let’s call them “interesting”, legal cases, what does your typical day look like?

Theopatra
I walk four miles every day because that’s my Bible. If I don't take care of my temple then I won't be able to take care of my mother. I won't be able to take care of my clients. I won't be able to make fine wine. So whatever I do, whether I do it early in the morning or late at night, I'm going to take my time to walk my four miles. I don't do as much weight training as I should, but the cardio gives me the sense of cleansing my mind and rebuilding my body.

When people want to be with me, I say, come walk with me. But I'm cheap. So I'm not going to go to a bar and pay money to drink wine. Now if people come in town, I try to be a great hostess. So we go to places they like such as Jack London Square. There's a great Asian fusion restaurant down there. I also love taking people out to the Top of the Mark in San Francisco because it has a beautiful view. But just me going out meeting friends, that's not something I do. When you work really hard and you're frugal, you also to take care of yourself. But I love taking care of people too.

Melier
I love hearing it. And we'll wrap it up on that note. Thank you Theodora, it was inspiring to meet with you and hear your story. And we look forward to sharing your wines with our customers.

Theodora
I look forward to sharing our wines with them too.

If you’d like to purchase wines from Theopolis Vineyards you can buy directly from them here. Use code MELIER at checkout and receive $10 in Melier credit for every $100 you spend between now and April 30, 2023.